Orc Tactic thread
The following tips were send in on a post asking about orc
tactis.:
First of all I want to thank you for posting a topic on orcs
tactics. I always think of my greenskins like a cunning army
which also fight with furiuos force, NOT like so many players,
like a huge mass of idiotic beasts in search only of a doom fight
(I let all that kind of way of thinking to beastmen generals....)
Personally I don't get pested by animosity: usually i fail only
one or two times the dices roll (on a battle of 2500 points) and
until now it's never happened that one unit has charged another
one (maybe i'm only lucky...[You sure are -Webmaster-]). After
all , for not having this problem, i usually field my black orcs
in a way that they could easily quell animosity on a maximum
number of gobbos and orcs units (something like 3-4 units).
Black orcs are good for 2 reasons:
1) They fight really well and could withstand even charges from
great units like imperial cavarly or from a regiment made of
Slann mage priest and his guard.
2) It's a unit really feared by other people so they usually
concentrate the fire on them while letting loose of normal boyz
(i use them with 2 hand weapons) that could run across the field
and charge everything with an outstanding force.
Another tactic I use: I field 36 arrer boyz in two regiments of
18. Do you think they are too much? Well they not only kill some
enemy with bows, but could be used very well like a light
infantry unit that could be sent ahead in the battle and that
could play very dirty tricks on your foe who don't expect a
charge from your arrerz (that also have choppaz...).
For Night Goblins I field them (1 unit of 40) like a defensive
unit against offensive players or like go ahead unit for
defensive ones. With few words: i use Night Goblins like a box
which contains a not so good present for the foe: 3 Fanatics. I
usually get also 6 netters.
I personally like fast cavarly so i field 1 unit of 8 wolfboyz
with spears, 1 of 5 with bows, 1 of Oglah khan wolfboyz (very
well equipped) to make a lot of side charges if i could.
Warmachines are great! I'll explain:
1) Spear chukkaz are very good for targeting huge units with a
lot of ranges. You could kill even one range with one single shot
and even against monsters are good cause inflict D3 wounds and
you don't even need to guess the distance and you could take two
of them as one special troop choice.
2) Rock lobba: I know that isn't the most precise warmachine of
WarHammer, but think about it. If you hit one unit directly you
are likely to blast the unit off the battle, and against Dark
Elves, High Elves, dwarfs or Empire that usually field cannons
multi balists and other long range weapons it's the only way to
answer them and to take a chance to hit their long range weapons.
You have a targeting phase why not use it, if you have
warmachines?
I also field a giant who is uneffective only against poisoned
based attack troops (like skinks or Dark Elves) against whose i
field trolls. I use also 1 chariot (good for a double charge) and
2 basements of snotlings, which could pest your foe if not killed
before hand-to-hand combat. Have also a 2nd level savage orc
shaman who can play well also in HtH (ward save granted by
warpaints) and that could profite well of near engaged gobbos
& orcs units for havin' more spell dices. Even more he is
frenzy so it's immune to psycology until he is "high".
Two orc heroes on boar and an orc warchief on boar (with the
magical shield which grant a 4+ ward save) and my army is done.
Ahhh yes, most people truely underestamate the power of the
squig. When you put a unit of these balls of musle and teeth on
the side of your line and nothing is gonna want to come close. I
have a unit of 18 squigs and 10 hunters, i tell u this is one
nasty unit.
I was playing my brother once and he really didn't take all that
worry into the squig herder unit. That is untill they ate his
whole thunder unit in 2 turns. Well the next time we played he
shot up my squig herd to a bout 8, and i got into HtH with a
regiment of dwarfs,great weapons, heavy armor, 20 stonge, and a
full comand. He killed 3 when he charged (yes, the dwarfs charged
me) but I just kept on eating 4 to 5 a turn! And he only put 4
across.
But the squig units can also be bad, very bad. One time i decided
to put squig hoppers in my unit. I used to love these liltle guys
in 5th. They hop around, destoy war machine crew, eat up units,
it was great. But at about the 2nd turn i decided to let these
guys go, they didn't go very far, and the worst was about to
come. Well as u know squigs and squig hoppers die emediatelly
when charged. Well, since they die on the charge the unit gains
the over run rule. Well to make matter worse, my general was
fleeing, and my bro's battle banner was close to one of the squig
hoppers, and right at the beginning of the turn he said
"your not going to like this." he charged the squig
hopper, killed it and over ran into general. Ahh yes, a flying
3D6 flee gets u far, and right off the table. This type of squig
hopper stuff also happened a couple of other times.
So the moral of this story is "take squig herds, but don't
take the hoppers!"
This is a tactic you might want to try - be aware that it can go
distastrously wrong and mess up YOUR army but if it works it will
leave the enemy army reeling just before your boyz charge.
Basically take a large unit of squigs, with the minimum number of
herders (18 squigs and 6 herders works well).
Charge the unit straight towards your enemy at full speed, get
into charge range and let him charge you. Choose to flee as a
charge reaction - only the goblins will flee and the squigs will
stay put, before jumping away immediately (ie before your
opponent actually moves his chargers). The enemy will be left
with about 15 rampaging squigs bouncing up and down all over his
formations eating his troops. 2 attacks at WS4 and S5 for each
squig, in the middle of his lines where they will bounce between
units many times in one turn, cause serious damage.
That's IF it works. :) But then again, why play Orcs+Gobbos if
you're not prepared for a little fun? :)
I used to have two orc's chariots but now i field only one.
I think that there are some differences between orc chariots and
the one of gobbos. If you have few wolfriders you could gain in
speed takin' two (for only one slot choice) goblin's chariots
while if you have (like me) a lot of wolf runnin' through the
battlefield it's better one (or preferebly more!!) orc's chariot
which could be useful doin' double charges along with your
wolfriders.
The chariot can only move or charge (not run) and if it's hitten
by a cannon ball it's gone in only one shot so use it smartly and
try to avoid the enemy fire.
For the equipment: my boyz have all two hand weapons (so a lot of
attacks), my arrerz have light armour and black orc have one hand
weapon(choppa) and shields (i prefer protection).The choppa rule
could be useful but it's a little bit ineffective: i prefer to do
one more attack than a +1 only when charging, only my black orcs
are armed with choppaz cause for them +1 strenght could be
devastatin' in action (if i can charge). Also my arrerz have
choppaz and could be useful if you use them like light infantry
(as i do). One thing is not good for me: heroes and war boss on
boar have choppaz but can't use that for the bonus +1 , so why
not get your war boss and characters a great weapon (e.g. an
axe)?
Point of advice from the webmaster: Light armour on your arrerz
is pretty useless when using them only for the shooting bit.
I reckon chariots are pretty useless in an Orc and Goblin army. I
think they're not very 'Orcy' and you will only average 3 to 4
kills on your charge, and if the enemy doesn't lose and break you
can kiss your chariot goodbye next turn.
If they are charged they are useless and considering that
traditionally the Greenskins most common enemies are the Empire
and Dwarfs, who have loads of cannons, your chariots are likely
to be destroyed on turn 1 or 2, basically giving away 60/80pts
for each cannon shot.
It's true they can be quit useless. Well unfortunatly I played a
bretonian player last night, normally i have a rocklobba, but
since they have the "prayer" i desided to go with the
chariot. i charged a unit of men at arms, and well i only got 3
attacks in, and only 1 kill! I also had to run away and they
caught me!
Any way, they are orcy, very orcy, even though they might be good
at taking out small units and war machine crew, there loud, big,
scary, and can cause a lot of damage, all things that orcs like.
They ar indeed very Orcy, and i think that if you use them
together with a giant or with cavalry they can be very good Even
if u use 2 chariots vs 1 unit I can be devestating.
I only take Black Orcs it fits the army, I always make armys that
fit the background rather than too win. Aminosity is usually not
bad, but every now and then.... But its just one of those things
with orcs and goblins
The Doom diver is deadly against hv cavalry, no save! Also the
rock lobbers if they hit will desetroy any unit. Spear chukkas
are sometimes useful, but they're cheap too, so I usually take
em.
6 wolf riders with short bows are worth their weight in teef.
They take out war machines for me, lone wizards, get flank
charges, draw out the enemy, get fanatics out, take out smally
shooty units, etc etc. I always take a unit and they often win me
the battle, I love the little guys.
Wolf chariots are much better then Orc ones, speed is great.
Against an opponent of the same skill as you, you can't do
anything against Dwarfs.
They will outshoot you if you try to hold back, they will murder
your guys in Close combat (they Hate you allowing them to re-roll
misses, have better WS as well as elite troops and double-handed
weapons) and can dispel most spells you throw at them. Your
choppas giving you +1S on the charge help a little but still will
not increase the casualty count by much.
I would take as many shamans as you can (possibly even take a
Shaman Lord if it is a 2000pt game, I wouldn't dream of taking
one ordinarily, but against Dwarfs maybe). A couple'a Big bosses
to keep the guys in line and maybe a group of Black Orcs and a
group of Trolls, if only to absorb all the enemy missile fire
(both are as good as Dwarfs in HTH too).
Other then that, take lots of night goblins, a large Squig herd
and lots of fanatics. These can cause serious damage but the
trouble is it leaves little room for tactics (though you can try
the Squig Bomb).
I guess boarboyz could be useful too, but you'd have to have a
helluva lot of them (ie 20+) to create a sizeable group of
Boarboy big'uns. If you have the models Savage Orcs are probably
worth it over normal orcs, because they will get many more
attacks and ignore missile fire casualties, but still they are
unlikely to be able to break the Dwarfs in close combat.
A couple of Bolt throwers (Spear Chukkaz) for 35pts each could be
good as a distraction, and maybe damage some of the enemy's units
before you charge. Work on the principle that one dwarf is as
good as two Orcs in HTH, and use your higher Movement to choose
your fights and get some flank charges in. Don't hang about too
long though or your ladz will be riddled with bullets and
crossbow bolts before they can batter anything.
Basically a normal, balanced Orc army has a small chance of a win
against an equally good Dwarf player. You have to specialise your
army massively and most players do not have the models to do
this.
Ok, fill ur rare slots up with doom divers, theses do great
against thoses heavily armored guys. A wyvern is almost a must.
What u do is stick the wyvern behind some of ur units for about 2
turns, and when u get close enuff, fly over and take out the war
machine crew of the organ gun, and u have to have the "best
boss 'at" or the iron skin shield. A ward save of 4 or 5
will get the general there with out worring about cannons that
much.
And squigs do help alot! So far my feared squig unit has eatin 11
thunders (the whole unit), 15 clans men (from a unit of 20),
warmachine crews, and 6 bretonian archers (a unit of 20, but then
ran away). And thats only in 3 battles, but squig hoppers as i
said don't work well.
Also you might want a unit of savage orcs, loads of attacks, ward
save of 6, and equip theses guys with spears make a formitable
core unit to fight. These guys have a (slightly) better chance of
making it to the dwarven lines because of there ward save. And if
u have a character in a unit, try to at least give them a ward
save (even if it's a 6+, it still helps)
well I hope that helped abit.
Well, I have a sizable Orc army, but I am in the act of making my
main force a Badlands Nomad army (All mounted army) that is
listed in the back of the book.
But for the general tactics:
I always take Night Goblins and Goblin wolfriders as Core. Night
Goblins are excellent for sealing off corridors with fanatics,
your opponent won't want to go there. The wolf riders can be bent
into many many different tactics, which I have used in the past
to make a first turn charge. Let them do an (18 inch) march and
then cast a spell to blast them into charging combat (Choose a
unit that doesn't have a good armour save). I also use them to
force any orc enemies to dump thier fanatics into play on thier
own side of the table.
I use Chariots, if they take a Cannonball then something else
that is more expensive does not. Too many people use the Chariots
as a force by itself, don't do this. If it attacks alone then it
will get beat off and will cause other friendly orcs to run away.
Use it to back up another unit, after all those 4 extra kills
during a charge may be the difference between winning and running
away from combat. Its relatively cheap too (Even though I do
think its silly that boar chariots move slower than marching foot
soldiers) so loosing it to a cannon fire isn't going to cause you
to loose the game.
I place Black Orcs in the back with a level 4 mage in the unit, I
dont have to worry about the mage-protector unit failing
animosity and taking away my mage when I need him. They play
defence, and anyone who is crazy enough to sneak up from behind
will get a royal fight.
I do not use arrer boyz, these caused me to loose a game when
they failed animosity and shot my black orcs, who ended up
running from casualties in the last turn of the game, complete
points loss. As for setting up, putting chariots between units
with animosity will negate your own army attacking itself.
Point from the webmaster: Note that the above statement is
illegal, your arrer boyz will never shoot the Black Orcs, because
Black Orcs do not suffer from Animosty.
These are just a few of my tactics, I won't tell you all of them.
Spears are the best.
I've gone back to my all night gobbo army, and I've been
wondering, are trolls worth it? The thing that wories me most is
stupidity, because their ld is low, and so are my night gobbos. I
was thinking, instead bring along two squig herds (yes i can if i
use the varient army rules in the back) instead since the great
horror stories Little Grot tells are very amusing to me.
Another good question would be what type of troll do you use, and
if anyone has a problem with the gobbos fearing elves rule (i
wouldn't think so, since we would outnumber them all da time.)
Well, I used to field three trolls but the stupidity test and
their low Ld of 4 is their doom. First of all they must be within
your general or you will see huge slobbering monsters that go
across the field without doind nothing of special. So your
general became a nanny and that isn't the work of a big boss.
You see, they can regenerate hits but if they loose the HtH
combat (and this thing happen very frequently) i would like to
know how do you recall them if they flee from battle. Pretty much
impossible if the general isn't there (nanny 2: the revenge).
So i prefer the Giant that causes terror and also it's fun to
use! However I find the vomit (vomit attack: instead of three
attacks you could choose to vomit on one model doing only one hit
without armour save) pretty useful against heroes & general,
and ineffective against large units. My troll have always been
stone trolls cause they have magic resistance and so, if your
opponent uses fire magic, he may not affect your regeneration
rule.
Well, what do u guys see in orc arrer boys, i mean they are even
worse than bretonnian bowman, they have a short range (24) so u
have to march with them before you can shoot at dwarfs or other
none moving armys. Some people use them as a light infantary that
can shoot. But wy the hell would you give up the +1 attack for
two handweapons? If you use them as infantary they also can shoot
with only 8 or 10 orcs at a time (kind of useless). Please give
me youre oppinion on this (maybe i just use the arrer boys
wrong?)
Arrer boyz seem like a waste of time to me, too. i talked this
through with a couple of mates to see what uses they might
actually have. here's what we came up with:
1) Use them in seiges. Yes, when ruglud's armoured orc
crossbowmen are released they'd be much better, but presumably
you can only have one unit of them.
2) Use them to defend war machines if you're using a very shooty
orc army. Since shooty orc armies are so popular. Cough, cough.
3) Walk them up the flank to defend against fast things like dark
riders or dire wolves (the boyz might only kill a couple from
shooting, but they will get in the way).
4) Use them like empire detachments. Suppose you have a big unit
of black orcs, and you stick a small unit of arrer boyz either
side. As the enemy approaches, you get to shoot them, then you
can swing around and hit them in the flank(s) if it works. Sure,
they aren't as good as other kinds of boyz at close combat, but
they might cause a couple of wounds by shooting first, and then
they help win combat resolution by attacking the flanks.
Got any other ideas?
>> 1) Use them in seiges. Yes, when ruglud's armoured orc
crossbowmen are released they'd
>> be much better, but presumably you can only have one
unit of them.
Since ruglund is not released yet, why not use them??
>>
>> 2) Use them to defend war machines if you're using a
very shooty orc army. Since shooty
>> orc armies are so popular. Cough, cough.
I don't know if i have a shooty army: 2 chukkaz and 1 rock lobba.
well i think so: they could be useful as watch dogs after all.
>> 3) walk them up the flank to defend against fast things
like dark riders or dire wolves (the
>> boyz might only kill a couple from shooting, but they
will get in the way).
I repeat: if your foe is engaged with regular boyz you could do a
pretty flank attack with arrerz who are strong like other orcs in
HtH (and have choppaz)
>>4) use them like empire detachments. Suppose you have a
big unit of black orcs, and you
>> stick a small unit of arrer boyz either side. as the
enemy approaches, you get to shoot
>> them, then you can swing around and hit them in the
flank(s) if it works. sure, they aren't
>> as good as other kinds of boyz at close combat, but they
might cause a couple of wounds
>> by shooting first, and then they help win combat
resolution by attacking the flanks.
Very cunning!! So do you still believe that they are ineffective?
Actually, i've not been using orcs for long, and was on a bit of
a losing streak, especially against monte's vampire counts. The
detachment was his idea (it's not very "orcy" is it)
especially as his vampire counts are quite slow and have no
shooting of their own. But we haven't had time to try it out yet.
Plus, by using a black orc as a general and keeping the arrer
boyz nearby, the chance of failing the fear test is reduced a
bit. but......
Why use arrer boyz as detachments when you could use 20+ goblins,
especially night goblins with fanatics? Well, three main reasons:
1) i already have some old arrer boyz models, so it's cheaper
2) the orcs are better close combat fighters than ordinary
goblins
3) you can march the black orcs forward while leaving the arrer
boyz stationary if you want, without fear of activating fanatics.
